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25 December 2011 @ 03:19 pm
We are moving house  
Hello, everyone!
First of all, Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah to everyone who celebrate them and Happy Holidays to those who don’t but celebrate something else I am not aware of!

I have a big announcement to make. Due to the recent debacle with livejournal’s overhauling of the comments layout, I have made the decision, in agreement with my co-mod crystal_shard as well as the approval of all people who sent me PMs to tell me so after my message to you earlier this week, to move this community to http://tronkinkmeme.dreamwidth.org/

There are several reasons for this decision:

1. Due to the lack of subject lines and proper thread links it has become nigh-impossible to navigate or moderate this community. A workaround of this problem was possible, had the administrator honeycuddles been around to change the community settings to have a custom S2 look that would’ve returned the subject lines. However, even if that had happened, this comment overhaul is just the first of several waves of changes that the livejournal staff has in store for us. You can see details here: http://manonon.livejournal.com/6816.html Under these circumstances we do not think it is a good idea to stay here.
2. Many, many people have already reported that the livejournal default layout is causing them migraines, eye-strain and on a few occasions even seizures. Visually impaired people are also reporting massive problems navigating the comments. I cannot in good conscious force something like this on our members.
3. As mentioned above, I cannot properly moderate this community the way it is – due to the lack of subject lines all email notifications I receive from it are identical to each other, as well as to the email notifications from communities I track that are in similar state. On any given day I receive about a hundred identical notifications. This is an organizational nightmare I have neither the time nor the energy to try and sort through.

I am going to be absolutely honest with you and confess that I have not, in fact, attempted to contact honeycuddles since this comment layout debacle started. It has been several days now and I have not heard anything from her, even though this is her community to begin with and as such it is her responsibility. What is more, I have not heard from her since her supposed return months ago. She stopped responding to my messages a few weeks after she “returned” and has been silent ever since. I am absolutely fed up with chasing after and begging her to take care of that which she created. I have done so time and again, including involving lj administration and frankly, my patience has run out. What is more, personally, I find it humiliating to have to beg someone repeatedly to show some responsibility only to be blatantly ignored time and again and I refuse to do so again.

When she first returned I asked her to either transfer control of the community to me or to someone else who was willing to take up that responsibility at her discretion. She essentially pretended I hadn’t even spoken and made me and crystal_shard moderators, then she disappeared again. That is fine, but a moderator cannot solve problems such as the one we are facing now as we have no access to the community settings. Also, even if honeycuddles were to miraculously return again (for a few days) nothing can guarantee that she would do so next time when there is a crisis.

And finally, I want to notify you all that in a week’s time, on 2nd Jan 2012 I will be completely freezing all the entries I have posted to this community here on livejournal. You will be unable to post in them at all. The reason for this is, once again, the lack of subject lines that completely hamper my ability to properly moderate the community. I cannot be responsible, as a moderator, for content I cannot moderate. I understand that this decision might cause concern and frustration and for that you have my utmost apologies. In the new community in dreamwidth I have a set up an entry specifically for WIPs from the old (i.e. the current) community which you can find here
Those who miss the one week deadline to leave an update message on their fill thread about where they will continue filling their prompts can send me a PM later on post a comment on the dreamwidth entry set for this purpose, I will temporarily unfreeze the entry they are posting to so that they can do so. This way people who wish to remain anon won't have to de-anon to me by sending me PMs, also these messages wouldn't be spread all over the place and it'd be easier to keep track of them. Once again, I am truly sorry that it has come to taking such a drastic measure.

And finally, I want to express my gratitude and appreciation for all the people who supported and helped me during the time I moderated this community here on livejournal, even and especially during the period when my position wasn’t official. I sincerely hope that you will continue to do so on dreamwidth as well. Also, I want to inform you all that crystal_shard will probably reassume her moderator role there and may be joined by one or two more people who have expressed a desire to lend us a helping hand with moderating and managing this wonderful community.

From now on, please post new comments, prompts, wips and everything that concerns the tronkinkmeme to http://tronkinkmeme.dreamwidth.org/ http://tronkinkmeme.dreamwidth.org/
http://tronkinkmeme.dreamwidth.org/

By couchemal's excellent suggestion here you can share and look for dreamwidth invitation codes so our transition there goes smoother

Help Telera archive the meme.
telera has graciously offered to archive the original kinkmeme on livejournal, as well as the new entries here on DW on a delicious account. She’s just one person, however, and this is an enourmous amount of work. If anyone wishes lend her a hand we would all be incredibly grateful.

Also, regarding membership in the new community - the same as here membership is only open to comm mods. The reason for this is that since this is a kinkmeme, new entries are strictly moderated and I honestly think there is no point to accept new members only to restrict their entry posting access afterwards. Also, Telera has recently been promoted to community moderator. I hope you will all give her a warm welcome!

And finally, when making new accounts on DW, please make sure to confirm your emails. Otherwise we cannot send you PMs. Thank you.
 
 
 
(Deleted comment)
ginger_mayaginger_maya on December 25th, 2011 04:43 pm (UTC)
I fixed the coding of the link, it works fine now, thank you for pointing it out!
As for posting on dreamwidth, even if you don't have an account, you will be always welcome to post as anon and state your lj name if you wish people to find you here. I will be glad to see you there.

I will certainly not be deleting anything here, I can assure you of that, however, I can only unfreeze entries for you to a post a link to the people who follow your fills about where they will updated next, i.e. the WIP fill post on the new kinkmeme in dreamwidth, your personal journal or another archive of your choice. Freezing and unfreezing over and over again for anyone to update here with multiple chapters and multiple fills is infeasible and I will not do that, I'm sorry. I understand your frustration and trust me, I am very annoyed and frustrated with LJ at the moment as well, but desperate times require desperate measures. Christmas morning may or may not have been the best timing for this message, but as it is, I am having some free time to deal with all this and I'd rather do it now than not be able to do it at all later, when real life demands my attention again.

I have yet to decide when and how round 5 will close, I have to discuss it with crystal_shard and whoever we choose as an additional mod. I doubt it'll be any time soon though.

Edited at 2011-12-25 05:00 pm (UTC)
(Deleted comment)
ginger_mayaginger_maya on December 25th, 2011 07:10 pm (UTC)
I am glad I could help and don't worry, as I said, I understand your frustration.

crystal_shard has been very busy lately and I haven't heard from maga_tan at all. However, people have come forward offering to help with the archiving in the new meme, so I hope things will go better there with the del archive.

Thank you! Happy Holidays to you as well! :D
(Deleted comment)
ginger_mayaginger_maya on December 26th, 2011 11:35 am (UTC)
Yes, you PM me, I ufreeze the entry so you can post a link to a completed fill or a WIP. No, you do not need an account on DW, you can post as anonymous user. :D
(Deleted comment)
ginger_mayaginger_maya on December 26th, 2011 03:44 pm (UTC)
I have also set up an additional entry on the DW community where you and everyone else can leave a comment when you want an entry unfrozen to post a link to the fill. An anon mentioned how she'd rather not de-anon even to me (at least, that's how I interpreted what she said) and that's why I set it up. You can either PM me or post a comment there for now, though I would prefer if people gradually adhered to the entry alone because otherwise these messages can become spread all over the place - PMs here, PMs on DW, comments on the entry...
Brightdreamer (Mel): tron - sam blue eyebrightdreamer on December 25th, 2011 10:26 pm (UTC)
Just out of curiosity, why are you "unable" to follow to DW? They've got free joining right now without a code and it works pretty much the same as LJ. LJ Login even works with DW if you've got multiple accounts.

I don't like it either, but do what you've gotta do, right?
(Deleted comment)
Brightdreamer (Mel): tron - legacy recognizerbrightdreamer on December 26th, 2011 02:05 am (UTC)
But you won't be able to fill older prompts here, as the mod is locking it. Hence it is necessary to make a new account. You do need it, if you have to look at it that way to get over it. You can either deal with it or not, but she's obviously not going to be unlocking every single prompt that you (or anyone else) wants to fill any time they do.

It sucks, I know. I've paid for a permanent account here on LJ, you really think I want to up and move to a new site? But you go where you have to. And you have to in this case, it seems.

We can talk more over AIM if you want.
(Anonymous) on December 25th, 2011 05:52 pm (UTC)
Thank you for everything. It was AWESOME!
ginger_mayaginger_maya on December 25th, 2011 06:14 pm (UTC)
And I hope it will continue to be, anon, just in another place that doesn't troll it's member base in such a rude, unprofessional manner.
grackles on December 25th, 2011 06:25 pm (UTC)
If you're interested in dealing with one more post, it might be helpful if you start one where people can offer up dreamwidth account creation codes for people who want to make the transfer. I have some to offer and I bet others do too. The more people leaving LJ, the better, IMO.

Just a suggestion and from what you've said I can understand not wanting to deal with this comm ever again.

And I should have said before but thank you so much for maintaining this meme.

Edited at 2011-12-25 06:27 pm (UTC)
ginger_mayaginger_maya on December 25th, 2011 06:49 pm (UTC)
You're welcome and thank you for the excellent suggestion, I will make that post right away! :D Also, thank you for the kind words!
Brightdreamer (Mel): tron - sam blue eyebrightdreamer on December 25th, 2011 10:10 pm (UTC)
I have to say I do not agree with freezing comments on old entries. What about people who might want to comment on an old fic? I can understand your reasoning but I do not approve. It's not like people are still posting on the old entries, but you should still allow people to review old fics.

I don't particularly mind moving my WIPs over, if you'll allow me to repost them in their entirety rather than just linking back to the old entry.

Also, will you set up another thread to repost requests we'd like to see filled still from the old meme? I still have my list of ones I plan to fill and would like a place where I can do so.

Edited at 2011-12-25 10:24 pm (UTC)
ginger_mayaginger_maya on December 25th, 2011 10:27 pm (UTC)
To be honest with you, I am not happy with the idea of freezing them either. You're bringing up a very valid point with which I absolutely agree. The problem is, with the email notifications as messy and unlabelled as they are, I would not be able to break up a wank (because I would probably miss it in the mess of notifications) should one occur, nor can I prevent any spam, or the myriad other (problematic) things that could occur under these circumstances. This problem wouldn't have existed had I been able to import the entire community to dreamwidth (who unveiled this feature TODAY and we can't use it), but as I am not the admin and I don't have the account password that too is impossible. As you can imagine, I too am incredibly frustrated with all this.
If you have any suggestions how we can both allow reviewing of old fills and preventing community rule-breaking comments going unnoticed I will be glad to hear them, because frankly, I need them at the moment.

Also, I do not mind at all if you decide to repost the entire fills rather than just the updates, I even prefer the former to the latter if I have to be honest.

Yeah, I'll make a Golden Oldies, that is, Lonely Prompts entry, this is a good idea. Thank you. PS. I think I like the Golden Oldies title better. Thoughts?

Edited at 2011-12-25 10:38 pm (UTC)
Brightdreamer (Mel): tron - tron/flynn nice to see youbrightdreamer on December 26th, 2011 02:08 am (UTC)
I don't really mind what you call it, as long as you have a place for old prompts to be filled.

My suggestion involves trying to GET the admin password, either through LJ or contacting the old admin, but I'm pretty sure you don't want to do that.

ETA: I don't think it would hurt to contact LJ to ask to get admin privileges so you can get the comm imported to DW. The worst they can do is say no, right? If you've had a MIA admin for so long, they should do it.

Edited at 2011-12-28 08:32 am (UTC)
Telera: AlanSamRoughtelera on December 25th, 2011 10:11 pm (UTC)
Thanks so much for your continued interest and effort in looking after this community :)

Just a tiny little detail- the links to the old/new Delicious archive are not working- it seems the content was deleted.
ginger_mayaginger_maya on December 25th, 2011 10:33 pm (UTC)
Thank you and you're welcome.

Regarding the del archives, I assume that happened when delicious decided to relaunch themselves and created a complete mess comparable or worse than the one we're experiencing on LJ now. Under these circumstances we'd either have to start from scratch or begin archiving only the new meme.
Telera: Alantelera on December 26th, 2011 10:47 am (UTC)
Ok, so I have started tagging and filing everything here:

http://www.delicious.com/tronkinkmeme/

I agree with the anon who posted a little down the page that "organization is a goal in itself". It is, and this meme deserves a clear, searchable and organized archive.

I don't know how long it will take me to finish, but bear with me. I started with Round 1 for chronological reasons.

BTW, I had never used Delicious before, but I found it was fairly easy and quick to use so yeah. If anybody has comments, suggestions or ideas, I'll be very happy to hear them! :))
ginger_mayaginger_maya on December 26th, 2011 11:38 am (UTC)
Thank you so much for all your help and support! Don't worry about a time-line, the fact alone that you're doing this to begin with is enough. Thank you. Also, would you like help? I can always post another entry asking for people to lend you a hand.
Telera: SamRuffledtelera on December 26th, 2011 11:52 am (UTC)
You're welcome! Yes, if anybody would like to help me with the Delicious archive, I'd be very happy! Posting an entry about it would be a good idea, as if some people are interested, we'd move quicker tagging all the prompts.

Thanks!
nhpw: Sam thinkingnhpw on December 25th, 2011 10:48 pm (UTC)
This had to be a tough decision to make, and I don't envy your position in having to do it, but I understand the reason for it and will do my best to roll with the punches regarding a couple of WIPs.

I do have a question. What will become of unfilled prompts from previous rounds? As I came in late to this comm (sometime in the middle of Round 4), I've periodically gone back and filled prompts from previous rounds. I'd still be interested in doing that... will there be a way to indicate that this is a fill for a prompt on a previous round on LJ?
ginger_mayaginger_maya on December 25th, 2011 10:56 pm (UTC)
I'd rather we stay here than having to deal with a transfer like this, but after this debacle (that seems to be getting worse and worse if the new news entry is any indication) I simply do not see any other options available.

Regarding the unfilled prompts, my idea is to treat them as the WIPs - should anyone want to fill one, leave me a PM to unfreeze the entry so you can post a link to where you will be filling it - the new meme or another fanfic archive of your choice and if the original prompter is interested, they can follow the fill there. Also, as it was suggested previously, I'll open a new entry in the meme in dreamwidth regarding the Lonely Prompts.

I am also open to any thoughts, suggestions and ideas about how we can make this transition smoother.
(Anonymous) on December 26th, 2011 05:07 am (UTC)
One thing, though--how are we supposed to anonymously fill old prompts this way if we don't have LJ accounts or don't want to reveal ourselves? That's kind of an issue. Not that I have a solution or anything, but a huge draw to the meme for me is anonymity. Some of us simply don't want to be found, and don't want to create dummy accounts just for this. Unless you have a way for us to maybe post an anonymous comment on one particular unfrozen post (that isn't a round post) you leave specifically for this purpose? We can post anon and say we intend to fill x prompt at x link, and then either you could unfreeze it and we can tell the OP there we're filling it at the new location, or you can do both of those at once if it isn't too much trouble on your part. Does that make sense? Then we can preserve anonymity and those with accounts can of course just PM you. :)
ginger_mayaginger_maya on December 26th, 2011 11:44 am (UTC)
I assume the problem is that you'd feel uncomfortable about me knowing your account when you PM me to unfreeze the entry and you wish to avoid that as well?
If I have understood correctly and that is your concern that my suggestion is to post a separate entry on DW where you can post as anon with a link to the prompt you want to fill, then I can unfreeze the Round you need.
:| Actually, now that I think about it, maybe it'd be the best idea to open one such entry for everyone so these request wouldn't be spread all over the place.
(Anonymous) on December 26th, 2011 07:09 pm (UTC)
(Previous anon) Well, some of us don't have accounts, or yes, we want to avoid giving out the ones we do have. Kink memes are primarily supposed to be anonymous anyhow, and some of us simply can't participate unless we still have that option. The Tron fandom is very open, which is awesome, but we also have lurkers that write fills. I'm not saying that sending you a PM is unsafe or anything, but some people don't have accounts and don't want to make accounts. I think we shouldn't be accidentally turning anyone away. I guess what I'm saying is that it's not just me. My old username is dead and for good reason (stalking/harassment from previous fandom), and I personally am avoiding risks. There are also fic writers who are anonymous because they're shy, or because they aren't sure they want to join the fandom at large to write just one fill, or feel awkward publicly discussing kinks. I'm just suggesting an option for everyone who for whatever reason doesn't feel comfortable PMing people or having an account.

tl;dr The solution you outlined is exactly what I was thinking. Also, it'd be consolidated in one place, which I'd imagine would make your life easier. The LJ PM system is kind of a pain to use anyhow. Then people can track that one post as well for responses to old prompts. :)

<3 Thanks for being patient with all of us and taking the time to reply to everyone's comments. I really appreciate what you're doing here.
Ad Absurdum: tron - keep calmad00absurdum on December 26th, 2011 10:55 am (UTC)
How about creating separate entries for every round on DW - that way when someone fills a prompt from previous rounds, they'll leave a comment under the appropriate entry (with either a link to LJ or fill itself) and we'll be able to find it easily. Y/N?

Also, thanks for making the decision to move. I didn't want to loose sight of this comm and with the whole re-design (and me possibly moving as well) that looked lilke a distinct possibility.
ginger_mayaginger_maya on December 26th, 2011 11:46 am (UTC)
Fill entries will be created, of course, they're integral part of the work of any kinkmeme. I simply haven't gotten around to it yet - it's holidays, I have a lot of term papers to write and there's only of me at the moment to code all the links between the entries. Please be patient with me.
(Anonymous) on December 26th, 2011 04:55 am (UTC)
I'm an anon who's been following the meme since round 2. I understand the need for changes and maybe even more importantly the need for better archiving. I don't know if we should make a new Delicious archive unless Delicious is really the easiest, most intuitive way to do it because as we've seen, why waste people's time and energy going through thousands of comments if the people running Delicious are just going to screw it all up? My main concern is keeping track of old prompts, particularly unfilled ones--there are always duplicates every round because no one has the energy to sift through earlier rounds, and there are things I am working on from like round 1 that I do eventually want to fill and have seen. It'd also be great to have an archive that is searchable that isn't just AO3 because not all of us like to post under a name or have accounts there. I don't know how to accomplish things, but I just want to agree that organization is a goal in itself. I'm sure I'm not the only one who accidentally abandoned the meme for months because RL happened and it suddenly grew to a size that was almost unmanageable.

I know that reposting everything on Dreamwidth individually is a nightmare and will not happen. However, I just wish we could bring everything with us, because if we can't, the older stuff will ultimately be forgotten. And there's some great stuff in here that deserves to be read and reviewed and filled.

Thank you, ginger_maya, for not abandoning the meme and for trying to find the least painful way to keep everything together. Hopefully something will work out and you'll either get the mod password or someone else will come up with a good solution.

<3
ginger_mayaginger_maya on December 26th, 2011 11:51 am (UTC)
You're very welcome. I am trying to do my best though I am not sure how good the result is yet.

As you can see above, telera has begun to archive the meme in a new del archive. That is a lot of work and it may take a while, if you wish and you are able to lend her a hand we would all be most grateful.

I agree with you that we can't repost everything, obviously. My idea was only to repost current WIPs and whenever someone decides to fill an old prompt - obviously old completed fills and prompts won't be reposted.
Libby  リビgeuna on December 26th, 2011 07:40 am (UTC)
The only change I would suggest, if dreamwidth is anything like lj, that there should be only one master post for all fills, rather than one for each round. This consolidates everything nicely. That's the only issue I really had. A master fill post really helps out for those casual readers that stalk the meme for new posts only.
ginger_mayaginger_maya on December 26th, 2011 11:52 am (UTC)
This is a good idea and I will definitely take it into consideration. Thank you.
(Anonymous) on December 26th, 2011 09:05 am (UTC)
I realise that you've made the decision to move, but fail_fandomanon has as good a fix as is apparently possible for the comment issues - it's a separate post to the actual meme, one down on the comm right now. I don't know if you have the means to change the comment pages or not, but it could be a way to at the very least keep old fics open for commenting, if staying on LJ with a fix isn't an option - and I do understand why it might not be. Maybe you could (if changing the comments is an option) close out the current round here and start fresh on DW? Just a suggestion from a long time lurker.

Of course if it is enough of a fix to stay on LJ I would adore that :)
ginger_mayaginger_maya on December 26th, 2011 12:56 pm (UTC)
I am aware of that solution. Unfortunately only the comm admin, i.e. honeycuddles can do that because she's the only one with the access to the comm settings and she's been MIA for months now. Had I been able to do it I would've done so right away. That would've allowed me to prep everything in advance and ease is into DW (since a move was inevitable, what with the other changes LJ staff has prepared for us) gradually, rather than force such a sudden move, but with DW closing their no invitation code necessary account set up by the end of the year I don't think we have any time to waste. What is more I would've imported the entire comm to DW to begin with.

I wouldn't want to start a new round right away because I want this transition to have a sense of continuity, even if we're moving to another site.
(Anonymous) on December 26th, 2011 04:55 pm (UTC)
Anon you're replying to.

I didn't think it would hurt to let you know at least, and I'm sorry you don't have the access to do that. Also if nothing else, someone may see the comments and at least be able to use the solution for themselves - the more communication of the solution the more people who need it may see it.

I was pretty sure you would have done it nad it must be very frustrating for you, having kept the meme alive - which I truly believe you have - not to be able to do a gradual move to DW. I'm sure many of us, myself included, would have provided codes in a less sudden move too.

Yes, I was going to mention the importing feature coming in.

I'm really sorry that LJ's ridiculousness has forced this, though. Good luck and I will be following the meme most definitely.
EmeraldSnakesemeraldsnakes on December 26th, 2011 06:10 pm (UTC)
I can help telera with archival.
Telera: Zusetelera on December 26th, 2011 08:46 pm (UTC)
Hey! Thanks so much! Sending you a PM right away! :D